there's no such thing as a guilty pleasure
plus, a Q&A with Robinne Lee, the author of THE IDEA OF YOU
hi friends!
I’m in the midst of hosting my dad for a father-daughter weekend (more of what we got up to over on IG soon, including the most unexpected place I spotted Penn Badgley!), but I couldn’t miss the chance to sneak into your inbox to SWOON over our guest this week.
as soon as I relaunched the sunday series back in october with a new literary twist, I knew I wanted to feature Robinne Lee. after some sleuthing for the writer, actor, and multi-hyphenate’s email address, I ultimately came up completely short. but I certainly wasn’t going to admit defeat, so naturally, I resorted to sliding into her DMs. six months later—it had to be perfectly timed to the buzz surrounding this week’s highly anticipated release of the film adaptation of her debut novel—I couldn’t be happier to bring you our Q&A!!!!
but before we get into that fun, I want to share a bit more about why this conversation means so much to me. back during lockdown days, I got my hands on a copy of THE IDEA OF YOU, and it quickly shot to the top of my list of favorite books. it’s the one I recommend to nearly anyone who tells me they’re in a reading slump. but the thing is, I consistently catch myself on the verge of calling this book (and others in this vein of being so deliciously consumable) a “guilty pleasure.” and then, I bite my lip. I’ve been trying to retrain my brain that there is NO. SUCH. THING.
why should a book that’s about women, desire, love, and the pure enjoyment of life be something that makes me or you feel “guilty”? well, it shouldn’t. so here I am, declaring the end of my personal use of the misnomer/oxymoron “guilty pleasure”—particularly as it relates to reading. experiencing the thrill of not being able to put a beautifully written story down should not equate to guilt. but you know why my brain jumps to that terminology, right?? it’s because despite my feminist upbringing, I’ve been culturally programmed to associate women’s work around the “fluffy” topics we care about (love, friendship, career, identity) as lesser than the great works from tortured [male] artists.
the below quote from the book best encapsulates this cultural trap of minimizing the art we love simply because it’s not “dark and tortured and awailing.” bravo, Solène.
the irony of all of this is that ultimately, THE IDEA OF YOU tackles topics so much deeper than its premise (and the salacious sex) may convey on surface value. its about agesism, sexism, and agency. and as far as all the rheotic that its Harry Styles fan fiction? this week in Time, Lee tackles that notion in her piece, Reducing The Idea of You to Fan Fiction Is Another Example of Dismissing Women’s Art. I highly recommend a read if you too are constantly grappling with what it means to operate in a world where KEN gets nominated for an Oscar while Barbie and the female director behind one of the highest grossing films of all time…do not.
countless people will open up their Amazon Prime accounts this week and see a brand new movie available to them and have no insight into all of this cultural conversation swirling. they won’t know there’s a fandom of readers who’ve been rallying behind this book for years (check out previous sunday series guests
, and ’s recent Substacks to see what I mean!) and that’s okay. but when reading Robinne’s interview below, you’ll learn that this adaptation was a decade in the making. and beyond the decade she spent writing and championing this story, decades of work in Hollywood served to inspire Robinne to write a story about women’s power and how our relationship to agency/power shift as we age.to me, this story is a reminder that no art we consume appears out of thin air. the stories we tell—whether the medium is books, music, or actual art that hangs on our walls—are the product of lifetimes of learnings and our lived experience. I want to take this reminder with me more consciously as I consume art moving forward. ultimately, I want to remember that good things take time, and that, is…a good thing.
as I wrap up this massive TIOY debrief, a HUGE thank you to the team at Threads (I’ve recently learned some of you at Meta read! so honored!!) who invited me to an early screening of the film this week. seeing Robinne intro the film was a true *pinch me* moment. to make it even sweeter, I got to watch sitting next to my friend Kayla who shared a reel that encapsulated so much of what I too was feeling being in that room. the younger version of me would never believe some of the spaces I get to step into and it’s never lost on me how lucky I am to live this life. oh, and did I cry at the ending? I SURE did! for those who’ve read/watched, I’d love to hear how the adaptation resonated for you in comments! xKD
meet Robinne Lee
Robinne Lee is a Paris-based actor, writer, and producer. A graduate of Yale University and Columbia Law School, Robinne was born and raised in Westchester County, New York. As the daughter of Jamaican parents of African, Chinese, and British descent, Robinne has long had an affinity for travel and the arts. Robinne has numerous acting credits in both television and film, most notably opposite Will Smith in both Hitch and Seven Pounds, Don Cheadle in Hotel for Dogs, and Jennifer Garner in 13 Going on 30. Robinne played Christian Grey’s trusted COO, Ros Bailey, in the Fifty Shades franchise. Robinne's debut novel, The Idea of You, was published by St. Martin's Press in 2017, and has garnered a cult following. It was adapted into a film starring Anne Hathaway and Nicholas Galitzine by Amazon.
Kayla Douglas: Robinne, I'm a huge fan! For those just becoming familiar with your work, you're an actor, writer, and producer. What did your path to becoming such a multi-hyphenate look like?
Robinne Lee: A very long, arduous path, I’m afraid. I have always been a storyteller, and writing and acting are both activities that have consumed me since I was very young. They were extracurriculars that I was relatively good at and enjoyed, but I wasn’t 100% certain I could make a career at either, and so there were plenty of detours along the way. I majored in Psychology in undergrad. I went to law school. I worked in fashion both in New York and Paris. At one point, I co-owned a company that managed singing groups. I had so many varied interests, and was uncertain which would pan out. But acting won over eventually and for many years that was my day job. Writing fiction was what I did for fun. It was a stress relief and a way for me to be creative when I wasn’t in front of the camera or producing. And then I published “The Idea Of You,” and everything kind of shifted. I still think of acting as my bread and butter. But writing is far more demanding of my time and focus these days.
Kayla: Tell us about the seeds of inspiration and the premise behind your debut novel, THE IDEA OF YOU?
Robinne: I started writing “The Idea of You” in March of 2014, after a brief conversation with my husband. He has always been the person I trust most when bouncing around creative ideas. We’ve kind of always done that for each other. And when I jokingly told him one evening that I was thinking about running off and leaving him and the kids to follow a cute boy in a band, he said to me, “You know what? That would make a great book! A single mom with a daughter who’s in love with a boyband. And somehow the mom ends up in a relationship with one of the band members.” And I knew, even as he was saying it, that it was a brilliant idea, and that I could do the story justice.
In the 90s, when I was managing singing groups, one of the New Kids on the Block was our producer, and I got to know him and the other guys in the group reasonably well. And I had an inside peek at what life in a very successful, in-demand boyband was like. The chaos, the fandom, the endless travel, time in the studio, driving in caravans with young girls pounding on the windows of our vehicles. There was something intoxicating about all of it, but there was also a level of insanity. And whereas I could go home and escape that intense bubble type of life, they could not. And I found that very fascinating.
When the idea of this book came up, I was around 40 and working in an industry that is not too kind to women after a certain age. And I was very aware that just as I was coming into my power as a woman and an actress, the parts available to me were suddenly fewer and farther between. And the breakdown descriptions were considerably less desirable. And part of me became very frustrated and wanted to rail against this idea in our culture that women are no longer viable after 40. And I knew this might be the right vehicle for that.
And so, I thought if I could write a very honest and revealing love story about a woman at that age who suddenly found herself in a relationship with a much younger guy who was living in a certain bubble of celebrity that affected every aspect of his life and thereby hers, it could be a story worth telling. But the only way to truly do it justice was by layering in social commentary about ageism and sexism and the double standard, and motherhood – and how we, as women, often put everyone else’s happiness before our own. I didn’t want to write a surface love story. I wanted it to go much deeper. And so all those ideas were snowballing and colliding in my head at once, and as a writer, I just needed to provide a space for Solène and Hayes to tell their story. And so I did.
Kayla: It's notoriously difficult to get work adapted to TV or film, even after rights have been sold. What did the process for championing THE IDEA OF YOU look like as it became a film (out this week!) starring Anne Hathaway and Nicholas Galitzine?
Robinne: I had very little to do with the production once the rights were sold, so really can’t speak to this. But once you attach an A-lister like Annie, things can fall into place relatively quickly. I started writing this book 10 years ago and put it out into the world 7 years ago. So this has been a decade-long journey.
Kayla: You recently shared that you finished the manuscript for your second novel after what you called "three years of writer's block followed by five years of utter torture." What a feat! What can you share about your next book?
Robinne: Yes, it’s been absolute torture getting here, and I still have so far to go. I can’t share very much, I’m afraid. Particularly, since I’m still editing and things are getting shifted and switched around and added and eliminated daily. I will say it’s one woman’s search for self in an unfamiliar world. And while it’s not a love story, there are definitely elements that will appeal to fans of “The Idea Of You.”
Kayla: The writing and editing parts of the process are distinct—some writers enjoy the creativity that comes with ideation more, while others thrive in the polishing phase. Did you gravitate towards one more than the other?
Robinne: I’m learning that I’m miserable in both. Lol. No, seriously. I do love it when it all comes together. But so much of the writing process is pure torture. I like coming up with new characters: traits and eccentricities and backstories. That’s the fun part to me. Everything else is a bit of a slog. But I’m happy just inventing people and making them feel real, all day long. And I do like to give them a voice. So, the writing of dialogue is appealing. I really think it depends on the day.
Kayla: You call Paris home. How does life as an expat in one of the world's greatest cities contribute to your creative process?
Robinne: Paris is eternal. Old and young and everything in between…all at once. It is a magical city and I am hyper aware of being surrounded by beauty and history and art at every turn and that inspires and influences me in myriad ways. And as an American writer, walking in the footsteps of James Baldwin and Langston Hughes and Richard Wright and Heminway and Fitzgerald…you can’t help but feel giddy.
Kayla: Tell us about the most recent work of fiction that left you with a book hangover.
Robinne: I wouldn’t call it a book hangover, per se, but I’d say a book I’ve read recently that I still think about every so often is “The Paper Palace,” by Miranda Cowley Heller.
Kayla: What book is on your TBR pile that you're most excited to pick up?
Robinne: I’ve just begun reading “Vanishing Twins: A Marriage” by Leah Dieterich, which I am enjoying. And next up is “The Islands” by Dionne Irving, and “Dinner for One” by Sutanya Acres. But I have a hard time reading fiction when I’m in the thick of writing something new, so my TBR has been accumulating for quite some time. I’m embarrassed to tell you how many books are in the pile beside my bed.
Kayla: The Sunday Series was conceptualized as a love letter to my favorite day of the week. If we were with you in Paris on Sunday, where would you take us to spend the afternoon?
Robinne: I never tire of walking in Paris, so assuming the weather cooperates, we would walk and walk and walk. The best walks start in one part of the city and end up in another. We could start in the 6th at a café in Saint Germain des Près for coffee and croissants, and then wind north through the Ile de la Cité and over to Ile Saint Louis, stopping for ice cream before heading over to the Place des Voges to sit on a bench and people watch for a bit, before winding back into the Marais. If there are no lines, we’ll stop for Middle Eastern food at L’As du Fallafel (there’s always a line, but this is a fantasy, right?), and then continue exploring the Marais, popping in the little shops along Rue Vieille du Temple, perhaps stopping for a glass of Pouilly-Fumé and a cheese plate at Les Philosophes, before strolling back down to the Rue du Rivoli and following that all the way to the Louvre. We’d make our way through the courtyard, past the Pyramids and into the Jardins de Tuileries, and then we’d cross the Seine and head back into the 7th, near the Musée d’Orsay, where I would take you to one of my fave neighborhood restaurants where the potato Dauphinoise is to die for. And we would down that with a Pinot Noir and a filet de boeuf, and afterward we’d share a mousse au chocolat drizzled with olive oil and sprinkled with sea salt, and talk and laugh late into the night.
Kayla: Where can readers stream THE IDEA OF YOU film, or pick up a copy of the book if they haven't already?
Robinne: “The Idea Of You” started streaming worldwide on Amazon on May 2nd. The book is available wherever books are sold.
Last nigh i watched this movie in empty cinema at sha wellness and now i saw you writing about it :)
So great
I'm finally catching up t the Sunday Series and this was such a delight after a stressful few weeks. Such a delight. I adored the movie on a recent flight and can't wait for a time to curl up with the book next to me and watch it on a wider screen. It is a bi-yearly re-read :) As always, such a wonderful way to wind down this Sunday evening.